When does one know if he is a defensive or an attacking player?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by LenaicM, Feb 27, 2018.

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What is your style of play?

  1. Defensive

  2. Attacking

  3. Balanced

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  1. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    Hi everyone, 33-years-old beginner player here. Started badminton in September 2017 and took it pretty seriously since then with 2 practice sessions of 2 hours and a half per week and shadows + fitness exercices at home 3 times a week. A little bit of yoga before going to bed when time allows to keep my back pain free and try to prevent injuries. Shed a few kilograms in the process.

    Did some solid progress even though I’m still a beginner and will post a video soon to get some critics as well but there is one aspect of my game that has been bothering me a lot lately: Am I a defensive player? If I am, what does it means? That I’m naturally better in a defensive style of play and need to pursue in this direction or that I need to upgrade my poor attacking skills because my game is unbalanced?

    Playing against players of my level or slightly higher, I have tendency to loose to them whenever I try to play a little bit agressively with more attacks and intensity in my game by ending up making mistakes. On the other end whenever I play with a more defensive style, a little bit more passive than the adversary, using less stamina, with more lifts, drop shots and pushing him or her at the end of the court, returning their smashes and letting them smash again until the shuttle is out or in the net, I can win games with a larger margin in the score by letting my opponents get tired and do mistakes resulting in them scoring the majority of the points against themselves without me directly scoring much points.

    Should I consider myself a defensive player and exploit further this aspect of my game or simply work harder on my attacking skills to balance my style of play?

    How do you guys feel about the way you play? At our level, should we try to emphasize an apsect of our game such as defensive or attacking or would we be performing better with a balanced style of play? Thanks for your feedbacks.
     
  2. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    I'm not sure whether you can generalize across singles and doubles/mixed. The disciplines and their requirements feel too different to me. For instance, someone lacking stamina may play very defensively in doubles, but seek to end the rally as soon as possible in singles.

    As usual, to evaluate questions of tactics and technique, you can look at the pros. They do vary in style, but they all are aggressive at times, deceptive at others, and defensive as well. So it seems to be really good one needs to be able to attack as well.

    Because sometimes your purely defensive game will break down; if you meet somebody who's playing a defensive 4-corner game themselves, with safe shots and near-infinite stamina, you have a problem. Similarly, at higher skill levels, the offense tends to have an advantage. Against beginners you can often outright score by just playing a clear, but if somebody would try that against Viktor Axelsen, they will be in deep trouble if the clear only goes to the doubles service line, and maybe even if it drops right on the baseline.

    You should do both: Tactically, use your advantages and your opponent's disadvantages. If your opponents are not dangerous from the backcourt and your defense is really good, sure, clear every time. But better opponents will discover your preference and start letting you run as well - or work on their attack/deception until you can't just defend anymore.

    Therefore, plug holes in your skillset - and mindset. Learn to smash as well; smashing is absolutely essential for higher-level singles, and low/medium-level doubles. Try out new tactics in training. Try out deception; maybe your opponents can see that you're going to smash instead of drop or clear quite early?

    In any case, limiting yourself to one set of skills or tactics is a recipe for disaster and despair once you hit a skill ceiling. Play your preferred style, but be able to change if the situation demands it.
     
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  3. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    Thank you for those valuable feedbacks.
     
  4. Borkya

    Borkya Regular Member

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    I'm a real attacking player naturally and am drawn towards smashing and attacking. But as a woman who plays mixed doubles I had to learn not just attacking, but real offensive playing. Like, I really just want to kill every shot myself, but I know that's not being a good team player and we have better chances if I set-up a shot so my partner can kill it.

    Previously I was "infamous" in my little group for being a strong smasher and attacker. ("Americans are strong because they eat a lot of beef" is what my Chinese friends all said about me.) Meanwhile, my net was atrocious and embarrassing as I couldn't do the small movements easily. But as a female player I was kinda forced into the net and I trained and now my net is above average.

    So you can certainly train what you are not good at naturally and change yourself. I do think you need more balance. Of course you can have a preferred style but you really need to be competent in all aspects. And I started when I was 40-years-old so you can definitely re-train yourself at any age. ;)
     
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  5. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    Thank you for your encouraging words!
     
  6. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    Playing offensively isn't always smashing constantly.

    Good offense uses tactical shots to put the opponent out of position, and then use the stronger shots to finish a rally. A really common example is playing to their short forehand corner, then to their long backhand corner, and waiting for the weak reply to smash/kill.

    On the contrary, good defense isn't just about retrieval. If you do nothing but lift you'll be in for a bad time. Any player with experience will half smash wide to put you off balance and then aim to kill the weak reply. Good defense is also about being able to convert the rally into an attacking opportunity.

    In doubles you'll see this done by the defending team lifting wider and flatter to coax the opponents into a flat smash. You can then convert that flat smash into a drive, and start to come over the shuttle so you're hitting downwards at their court. Otherwise, you'll seem them bide time until they can play a good net shot (where the front player isn't marking aggressively) to coax a lift out of the opponent.

    There are also lots of times where a smash isn't the right shot. Learning which shot you want to use to produce the shot you want back is a big part of experience in the game. Like that example of playing short forehand long backhand, if someone does that to you and you're not behind the shuttle enough to smash properly, the chances are they're going to drive it back. But if you look at them waiting to pounce the net, you can play a straight clear, hopefully they'll give you another clear where you'll have better opportunity to attack.
     
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  7. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    Yes I got what I was doing wrong. I was doing lifts, half smashes and drop shots when playing defensive but I was doing it without purpose in the way I was defending without trying to create a scoring opportunity. I won matches against stronger opponents than me this way but it will have its limits with much better skilled opponents in the future. I was being passive in the way I was not trying to score points and was just waiting for my oppopnent’s mistakes to score. I associated defensive play with passive play and that was a mistake. I got that after reading your comments.

    I totally revised my training since I posted this thread few weeks ago and I’m still looking to find my balance but I’m working on it and I try to play with a more balanced style of play and more importantly I try to play with purpose : )
     
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  8. shooting stroke

    shooting stroke Regular Member

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    The scenario (single)

    You received a low serve towards your backhand side, you replied with a straight net, opponent replied with a straight lift, you go and do a jumping punch clear to his backhand that went deep to his backhand corner, he replied with a stright backhand clear (which you had predicted) then you jump for a crossed cgourt smash into his right empty court (hoping going for the kill) which he managed to reply with a diving kinda Dato Lee Chong Wei version of a straight block but then you managed to reply with a tight straight net forcing him to again do a straight lift and again for the second time you jump and give him your Zhao Juan Hua kinda version of crossed court smash to his backhand side but still he managed to reply with the same version of Dato straight block but now the return is much tighter to the net and you just managed to watch it and saying to yourself what the f@#$?....anyone has gone through such familiar scenario????

    Being an offensive type of players will NOT win you all your matches, being a defensive type of player will even guarantee you that will NOT win you any of your matches and for sure there is no such thing as a balance type player if you ask me IMHO

    What makes you a good player is your ability to comprehensively analysed all your strength, weakness, opportunity and threat (SWOT) that is presented to you while playing and used this info to strategically develop what best kind of style of play that works well to give a greater chances of winning. Compatmentalizing such playing style will severely limit your potential.
     
    #8 shooting stroke, Mar 16, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
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  9. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    I understand what you say and the fact that being a good badminton player requires to be polyvalent and to be able to adapt your style of play depending of your strengths, your opponent and the situation. Yet, at my level (beginner) I’m not sure I can “SWOT” my game as I’m really in a learning phase but I like the idea behind this philosophy. It’s just that I feel so far from being able to comprehend my own game that I don’t think I could apply the SWOT as of now. As for now I’m trying to balance my style of play in matches and practices sessions to learn all the aspects of the game and discover my strengths and weaknesses. I hope to be able to analyse my own game and my opponents in the near future to be able to play such a sophisticated style of play! Thanks for the kind advices.
     
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  10. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    That's good! I agree with the idea @shooting stroke is conveying with identifying strengths and weaknesses, but I would hold off on that for now. It can be very easy to say "Well, my dropshots to the forehand corner aren't successful so I shouldn't do them anymore!", but that's not helpful internal criticism. Lots of players get suckered into this 'It didn't work once it can never work' mentality in a game, so for now try to focus on being observant, but not too judgmental on these things.

    It is much more constructive if you can say "Ok my dropshot to his forehand corner didn't work because he knew it was coming", or "Trying to play a tight shot off of his net shot is very difficult" because you're identifying the cause of it. This means that when you see he isn't ready for your drop shot, you can play it; when you're cornered at the net and know you'll struggle, you can lift it. It's such a small shift in thinking, but it really does help to minimize desperate plays in games, and starts getting you to look at your opportunities with shots.

    Focus on mastering your shots and movements, and just try to observe how things turn out with various shots in situations. Like in the situation @shooting stroke mentions with the two wide smashes being retrieved - you could convince yourself that your opponent will always get your smashes back no matter what... but that simply isn't true.

    I wish you the best of luck with developing your badminton skills. :)
     
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  11. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    Thank you, I appreciate your valuable feedback. So many positive and constructive thinkings and tips. I’ve got a long road ahead of me before I can feel that I can play correctly but I’m enjoying the journey : )
     
  12. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    Alright, a month has passed since I questionned my style of play and thanks to your tips and comments I adopted a new approach for my practice sessions and matches. I lost most of them, if not all, since I play more actively as my offensive strokes (including my smashes) still land in the net more often than on the opposite court, but... I also learned two things I was doing wrong by filming myself and that were the source of my initial problem:
    - wrong forehand racket grip
    - catching the shuttle (way) too low on all overhead strokes

    I now mainly focus on fixing these issues of mine which made me question my style of play. Where there is a problem there is a reason and a solution. I used to win more matches when playing a defensive oriented game because it is somehow “easier” and safer technically to just defend and lift. Attacking strokes requires a very specific grip such as for smashes and net kills as well as catching the shuttle high enough to be deadly and I was very poor technically on these attacking strokes and ended up not using those strokes.

    Happy to say things have changed and I started to surprise myself recently by creating some opportunities during a few rallies and by being able to end those rallies by scoring points by myself with some decent smashes, semi-smashes or drop shots. I’m still in a phase where I try more attacking strokes than I should as I’m really trying to focus on those major issues of mine but I believe once I have more control on my attacking strokes and more success, I will be able to play a much more efficient and balanced game than before. Thanks again everyone for the feedbacks.
     
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  13. Raph

    Raph Regular Member

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    I have experienced the same thing you did when I started to take badminton seriously again in 2014 : altough I did have a previous baggage having played in high school, it was negligible, so I was for all intents and purposes a stone cold beginner. When facing tougher opposition, it is mentally easier to just passively defend since the shot choices are fewer and the shots in question are easier to pick up and execute: lifting orclearing is less daunting than executing a precise drop shot or lethal smash. Most beginners are quite defensive.

    Being so defense minded, I quickly ran into a rut in my playing : I could defend pretty good, but when giving up the attack, you bank on your opponent making mistakes and that's no way to win rallies on a consistent basis.

    Seeing that, I started to think about attacking more, and the pendulum swung the other way completly. All shot returns that were above the tape were an opportunity to take the attack back. It took some adjustement not to throw myself out of the game by being over ambitious, but that's a given. I also learned that attacking doesn't always mean whacking the shuttle as hard as you can : drives or soft pushes can be even more damaging, especially from mid court when the opponents don't expect it

    I became more proactive and my defense got instantly better too. Why ? Because I was putting pressure on the opponents and their quality of shots dropped since they didn't have a whole bunch of time between my high base lifts or clears to analyze my position, the position of my teamate and to produce deception, and also, when you hunt the shuttle and look to win, you move your feet and don't become a static lifting pylon.
     
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  14. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    Yes that is exactly what is happening to me and I totally relate to your experience. Still in the “attacking all the way” phase at the moment (aware of it being too much) as I really try to improve my smashes and drop shots with a lot of drills related to those strokes and even in practice matches where I really pour most of my energy into catching the shuttle high and try not to mind the points of the game but instead, try to focus on my technique and improvements.
     
  15. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    I took some time to review the footages of this week’s session (no coach where I live therefore it is my only way to see and eventually correct the bad habits) and realized I developed the habit of crossing my legs (picture #3) on a specific footwork, which is going from base (after I served short and was returned a net shot on the pictures below) to the net. And I was wondering if that was a mistake or not? Should I cross my legs when going to the front court or not?

    Otherwise another mistake I make here is to catch the shuttle too low while it is unnecessary as I arrived early to the net. I believe I execute the split drop properly though and use my left foot to propulse myself fast to the net but I’m not sure about this crossing leg pattern I developed.

    C55FCF3B-4996-472D-934A-56FF6E6FC4EF.jpeg
     
  16. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    If you served short and your split was as picture #2, then I would guess you opponent must have played a loose net/slow net for you to be able to cross your feet and reach the shuttle since you're quite far forward already. Perhaps it is the other way - you can only reach the shuttle low because you cross your feet. Without seeing the video it's hard to tell - could you upload this point to YouTube?

    One thing I'll say is that you can cross your feet, but based on your position in this specific example, it looks like you shouldn't need to. By crossing, you may be getting too close to the shuttle which 1) cramps you up on space 2) makes a longer distance to recover.

    A quick chasse with an outreaching racquet should allow you to take the shuttle with plenty variety and plenty of control, whilst not overcommitting to the front.
     
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  17. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    Spot on I believe. Below is the full video sequence to confirm your comments but I find it very helpful already as I often catch the shuttle too low at the net and your point is very valuable. Thank you.

     
  18. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Nothing wrong with crossing the feet behind in theory. Its just an extension of a chasse - you step a bit further than the chasse, but in order to do so you cross behind. Very normal and sometimes taught on the forehand side. However, crossing in front is also a very good (possibly a better) option - normally referred to as a "running step". Crossing behind has slight limitations in how far you can reach (you go further than a chasse, but not as far as crossing in front).

    So there we have it - perfectly valid footwork in theory, as long as it didn't limit you (either getting you too close, or not allowing you to move far enough quick enough) - in which case choose a different pattern. Most players will use this at times - it normally depends on what angle your feet and hips were at as you perform a split step. If you have your racket foot further in front, then the cross behind is very natural. If your feet are wider or more square, then a chasse or running step is more normal.
     
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  19. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    Thank you for clearing that up too about crossing the legs. Dark Hiatus already gave me strong advices, so did you.

    It kinda limited me here and Dark Hiatus mentionned it in his post, I was a bit too close from the shuttle, caught it too late and my racket arm not fully extended + it makes me move further than necessary from my previous base position and compromise my return on the next stroke of my opponent (especially if he is pushing me at the back of the court) so something to work on here. Thanks again for those solid advices : )
     
  20. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    After focusing and working almost excusively on my attacking strokes for 2 months and coming from no smash at all to the point where I can now smash or at least pretend to try when the opportunity is there, yet it lacks so much power.

    I believe my racket arm should be higher while I move backward and before I actually smash. I could also have a higher contact point. (believe me I’m focusing on theses points so much yet I still find myself catching the shuttle too low or having my racket arm held too low at times)

    Here is a video where I would like to get your comments in order to work furthermore in the right direction and improve my smash execution and eventually power. Thank you.

     

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