Late answer, sorry. After playing for the last few weeks and trying to process all those information, well I finally understood most of it and why I was confused! Spent the last sessions of the year applying those techniques. No worries, I think your tips and others’ were just on point and I couldn’t care less on the few positive things I was doing hehe. I knew it was not good, thus why I posted on the forum to ask for help. First of all the biggest improvement for me was to understand the “too much wrist” issue. I got confused with stick smash when you are late and still want to do a smash and the regular smash when you don’t take the shuttle late but you are properly positioned. I also understand the pronation action I need to do in order to produce more power during a regular smash or even a clear and watching the latest video I posted here, I can see I didn’t understand it before as I’m only using the wrist. Huge change since I apply pronation to my forehand strokes! Not only I feel more power but also with much less effort in the shoulder and the stroke naturally doesn't follow through too long using pronation. No wonder I injured a little bit my shoulder lately with smashes drills that were not executed properly and using a lot of shoulder and wrist. Season is finished in France and the only courts to rent are a bit far from my place and most importantly I cannot find any motivated partners to play with me. Instead I started a program since this month that I will pursue until the end of August. I placed a net in my garden and I do 30 mins shadows exercices + 20 mins serves on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. On Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday I do 45 mins of muscular reinforcement and general fitness exercices. Everyday I do 30 mins of elliptical bicycle. Sunday is rest day. Hoping to start the season ready and healthy in September. Wishing all of you a great summer and I’ll post some progress next season.
Thanks for the additional analysis. I know right... way too much swinging motion and wrist. I recently understood how to properly do a forehand stroke including smashes and wow I can’t believe I didn’t spend more time undertsanding the biomechanics of pronation as it simply change everything in a forehand stroke. I do realize now that the smashes I posted on the previous video were definitely not technically correct. Thanks!
Don't worry. I didn't really expect anything before your summer break. That's great. Maybe share the thoughts you had? I think many of these threads are also used by other people, so it might help them. Also it would be a nice feedback for me to (maybe) change my wording next time. I'm glad you found out for yourself and learned what pronation feels like. That's the first very important step. And I think it's great that you mention it again, because all the talk about wrist when some people actually want to say "forearm pronation" is something that probably confuses a lot of people. For a full smash, you will still use your entire body and the entire kinetic chain, but for now I'm just happy we could help and to get the feedback that you actually did experience a change in how a stroke feels. It's still a long way to unconsciously use it all in games, but it seems like you're heading in the right direction. Sounds like you're committed to improving. It's nice to see that. Make sure not to injure yourself though. 30 minutes of shadow exercises sounds like you're aiming for rhythm? What I'm missing in this schedule is something for speed that could be easily included in your MON/WED/FRI plan. after warming up, you could do some interval (for example 30 second exercise, 30 seconds break) footwork (and jumping) exercises aiming for speed for around 10 to 15 minutes, then doing 20 (to not increase the duration of your training too much) to 30 minutes of constant shadow badminton. There are other options... Another important aspect of speed is strength, so make sure to include your legs in your TUE/THU/SAT schedule. Maybe end of with a Moby Flower squats challenge everytime? It might be a nice way to push your limits when you know it's over after that. Also, make sure to really use the Sunday for resting And to really take care of your food (your body will have a demand for proteins and carbs, but vegetables are at least as important). A six days a week schedule is very demanding for your body, especially because you can train with very high intensity when not playing at all. Take care of your body, you only have one! Saying that, i have to think about one more thing: On MON/WED/FRI after your serves (or ideally after an hour more, but that might be hard to accomplish and you'd need to slightly warm up again), do a throughout stretching for your body. While this might not be necessary, it should help. The studies I know about it just focused on the performance when stretching before sports and you can skip that, but I feel that stretching should be included. Alternatively (or on top of that), a foam roller can be used... That reminds me: I still don't have one. I need to get one. That will hurt though, but looking at your schedule, you seem to like that. And please make sure to make a picture of your lawn every week. And again, don't injure yourself. A backyard can be uneven and slippery. Be careful! This is a lot again, sorry. :/ Keep it up, but also take care!
Ok so first of all thanks for the follow up! Regarding how I figured it out is simple. I misunderstood sticksmash and regular smash + I finally took more time to check up and understand pronation and supination, watched several videos about it and spend more time trying to decompose the movement with the racket in the air. Seems silly but I’m sure a lot of other players do not take the time to understand the concept of supination/pronation. I didn’t. Lastly if anyone read this thread. Just get a coach. I’m super happy with my progress in one year but I had to figure it all by myself and it does take an awful lot of time... even with the help of all of you in this thread or helpful threads I read like the one of @DarkHiatus or @Cheung , it just isn’t possible to understand a complex sport in term of technique and biomechanics such as badminton (and most sports actually, I play a little bit of golf too and it isn’t as easy as most folks think it is but in France there are much more coaches available for golf than badminton so I played less golf but progressed more than in badminton). I’m sure the improvements of a beginner can be twice faster when directed by a coach. I can’t imagine starting last september and already being corrected about how to execute a proper stroke right away. Took me 10 months, what a waste of time... so yes get a coach if you can : ) even to help get you started and learn the basics. @speCulatius your words were good don’t sweat it hehe. Actually it was I who didn’t understand and confused myself with other advices. Yup I stretch before and after any exercises. Being 33 I’m not old but I can already feel the change in my body. Didn’t really need a pre/post warm up when I was younger but I do now. If I don’t it takes me more time to recover from the previous session/exercise. Also I’m very careful not to slide in the grass (wich is more like dirt only now after all those footwork) that would definitely be bad for the Achilles’ tendons especially. I included some leg exercices with a balance board (one leg squats) and some jumping squats too, some lunges with weight, etc. Kinda inspired myself from what I found in some videos on the web and Instagram from pro players. Took me 2 weeks to draft a little program that I like, I included some wrist exercices and even some finger power ones with a tennis ball to squeeze with the fingers, shoulder reinforcement with an elastic band, etc. I add more exercices along the weeks. My workout last 1h30 now. Feeling good about it! Weirdly though I gained a bit of weight. Can’t explain that. I work out more than usually and eat properly like I always try to do. Never adding sugar, adding fibers, protein adequately and glucides, etc. Wonder if I’m not gaining muscles. Or I’m dreaming! Anyway thanks again for the tips, actually just got a foam roller yesterday to help muscle recovery. Will see if it helps. Also great news, a 2 days badminton training (with free sesisons at night) is taking place mid August, not so far from me, and I will be able to attend. Should help me get back some sensation before the season starts again in September.
Just a quick word about "wasting" time - those 10 month you tried to self teach are certainly not wasted! In fact, many coaches will teach you "bad" techniques as stepping stones onto more advanced/efficient techniques. It's common not to have heard of pronation/supination before, as a deep understanding isn't necessarily needed to perform the ideal stroke. Different ways to get to the same end result. Either way, now you have the knowledge of what common difficulties beginners have. I have a whole thread full of it, and I hope the log over the last few years will help others see what an "average" person doing a 9-5 can do after putting in the hours (eventually with regular coaching!). I'm not done yet, but hopefully people can see that zero to hero transformation when I start placing on the podiums!
Me too! I recently made a video of my 2.5years of training and I equally love seeing my progress versus hate seeing how far I still have to go.
Definitely agree regarding the use of pronation and supination. Most players if not almost all (1 guy is playing very well using good technique and win regional tournaments) do not even want to know about it at my clubt. I talked to some players about it to hear their take and their interest and knowledge about pronation/supination what close to none. Hope you can achieve your goals! Let’s keep up the good work in practice! : )
Quick update, now training 3 to 5 times a week - depending of my fitness level - for 45 mins in the garden with various footwork exercises (see video posted below). Here is some picture of my setup which is in no way intended to actually play any badminton but instead to be an alternative of... not doing anything. For those who want to add some badminton related exercices at home and cannot always have access to a real court, I find it very helpful and I do feel like my footwork and stamina improved. It’s always different with an opponent on a real court but it’s still some good exercices. Besides when on court we don’t really do much footwork exercices. Here on a garden you cannot really play anyway so it’s kinda pushing you to work on your footworks. The floor isn’t flat and instead it is a little bit uphill toward the net so it’s pretty tough on the legs comparing to a flat court making it a good exercice. The courts and clubs open in September. I’m nowhere near where I wanted to be as I lack some actual badminton training on court with a shuttle but well I guess it’s better than not doing anything for 2 months since the courts closed back in June. I’m having a two days intensive badminton training on sunday and monday so I’m looking forward to that. Here is a video with some of the exercice I do. Here practicing net kills from left to right and changing from a backhand grip to forehand grip in between, practicing back courts from left to right, from back court to the net and some 6 corners footwork using an app on the ipad (called “footwork”).
Liking the setup! Definitely better than nothing, be be very careful of training in bad habits. It's perfect practice that makes for perfect, after all. The biggest thing I noticed was your rearcourt smash and forward for net kill footwork. It's simply too long - you will not have time to make 4 steps between a smash and a kill at the net. Your opponent would have to somehow defend your smash upwards, but have it land just at the net? Very unlikely. More realistic is two steps and assume the "kill" is something more close to landing in the midcourt, or if you really want to simulate a kill near the net, then it's three steps with the shuttle taken before your left foot lands - this is an extremely aggressive kill though, so it's unlikely you'll ever do this in a game. Finally, you can imagine playing a 50% smash (point/check smash) and recover to the centre (get the split step ready in the centre of the court), THEN take 2 steps quickly to kill at the net . Also, an injury prevention tip - be extremely careful of the direction your lunging foot points after your backhand side lunges to the front. It is pointing very heavily towards the left of the court, rather than being in line with your knee. This is a massive risk factor for rolling your ankle or even worse, straining/snapping a tendon/ligament in your knee. It's also even worse risk because you are practising on grass. Overall, I feel you would gain more by slowing down your footwork by 30-40% and concentrating on form (posture and balance) over speed.
Thanks for pointing that out. May be I focused too much on speed and “power” rather than executing my footwork properly. From rearcourt smash forward to the net is definitely not realistic (like most footwork exercices I do but I tried to do some variations as I got bored of the 6 corners footwork) and I thought it would be a good exercice and would seems easier in real if I practice this way by doing the extra effort, even unrealistic, but I can see how it can end up giving me a wrong timing in a real situation. I cannot see the moment(s) you describe where my foot points unaligned to my knee and I definitely need to understand that because I know it’s a huge no go in badminton and something I try to be careful about. Could you tell me what minutes/seconds on the video? Thanks again. The grass is definitely a little bit dangerous and I started slow back in early July. Somehow got used to it but I’m aware it’s not ideal conditions for working on speed or even footwork but well I kinda took the risk without really worrying about it. Will re-evaluate how to execute those exercises especially since I will be able to play soon on a real court . Not the moment to injure myself...
Just wanted to post a quick update on my progress regarding smashes, hitting the birdie higher and using more pronation. I'm happy about the progress and how I can catch the shuttle a bit higher and use more pronation, however I would not advise watching the whole match but only the moment I linked with the smash as I couldn't clear properly (shoulder pains) and push my opponent back during those two sets. Most of my smashes were also pretty poorly executed except this one... PS: I’m playing with the darker blue tee shirt.
Thank you. Recording and analyzing the trainings help a bit. Also the advices on here, whether it is on this thread or others have been a solid help in the right direction even though it takes time to understand, process and apply on court as I’m still trying to apply all I’ve read on this thread. Enjoying the journey though
I was talking to some of the Taiwanese players. They told me they do gym work three times a week, about two and half hours of on court time in the morning and three hours in the late afternoon. So, for an amateur, sounds like two and half hours is a very decent time for training.
@LenaicM Loved your enthusiasm on the court. Try moving half a second late and see if it increases your shot quality. Felt like you moved too early on few shots. Keep posting. You will achieve your desired level one day, I am sure.
Interesting to know how much training they go through. I reduced my off court training time though since November because I have a few exams to pass soon and I kinda use that as an excuse to rest a bit. Definitely 3 sessions a week on court helps a lot. Was doing 2 only last year and well the math is easy, at the end of the season, adding one session per week increase court time by 50%. That’s a lot of extra training and nothing beats court time to progress at a beginner level.
Well thanks for your feedback, I have already been told that by a few players at my clubs so I guess it must be very obvious. I anticipate too much, I lack confidence in my footwork speed execution, especially in the back of the court and always tend to compensate by anticipating a bit. Also I often place myself too early at the net as I rush too fast there and still end up catching the shuttle too late while I have time to hit it higher. Something I’m aware of but somehow can’t yet manage to apply in matches (better during drills). Yes let’s do our best!
4 months have passed since the last video I posted and I thought it was time for an update as I progressed overall and especially for my smashes. It's still a work in progress at my level obviously and I started to jump smash a bit so the timing is not always perfect and I kind of loose balance a bit mid-air sometimes I'm not sure it's normal or I need to strengthen my core more to remain more stable in the air or if my positioning before the jump is wrong (like may be I'm not well placed enough under the shuttle and I have to compensate in the air with my upper body to catch the shuttle properly). Also when doing a stick smash (0:26 in the video) I don't use enough pronation to generate more power and may be too much wrist movement which I stopped doing during regular smashes. Not sure why I can't get it right for stick smash. Finally and to get back to the original topic, my game is still rather defensive. Yet I can now smash and therefore don't hesitate to do so when the opportunity arise which I used to refrain from doing as most of my smashes used to go straight in the net or be too flat to be dangerous. Obviously the fact I started to apply the correct technique is what made the difference. Most of my smashes are now steep enough to be performed at the back of the court (first smash in the video is quite far, not even sure if the lift of my opponent was not out) and more powerful (use of pronation and body rotation with the correct grip). Again thanks to everyone's advices since the first post. Took some time to digest it all but it's much better now. Still a lot to work on to generate more power!
I have not followed your whole thread therefore my comment is only going to be based on your last post. I have noticed different points that I will list in the order of importance (all of this is only my humble opinion). - I would say that your upper body rotation is good but your lower body rotation is kind of lagging behind as you can see in the screenshot attached. This means that your legs are not providing much power when smashing. - I think you can get more behind the shuttle than that and it will help with the issue above. Plus your stick smash at 0:26 is hit while jumping backward which makes it very difficult to execute properly. - you grip is fine but may be still a little bit pan handy (not sure for this one, I am more guessing looking at your overall stroke) This is all I can think of. Anyway good work and keep going! I know how it can be hard to wake up super early to go to tournament on Saturday while not being sure to qualify out of your group.
Thanks a lot for your feedbacks! Yes regarding my lower body rotation I actually did a one-hour coaching session in Barcelona in January and it is the first and main thing the coach noticed and told me: to have both feet parallel to the net before dropshots, smashes or clears in order to generate more lower body rotation and create a sense of deceptiveness. I'm trying during drills but it's definitely not there yet... I still have to focus to combine pronation with footwork and upper body rotation and when adding the lower body factor in the equation well it gets complicated. I didn't integrate it yet but I'm still working on it 3 times a week during smashes drills so it will come. It's hard to tell with this camera angle but I think I'm already well behind the shuttle but may be I should get there faster to have more time to position myself properly?! As for the grip I guess I was panhandled on the stick smash at 0:26 which would explain the lack of power. Hehe especially when convocated at 7.30 am but I'm done for this season and tournaments as I have a lot of important school exams to pass until June so I will just keep on practicing hard for the rest of this season! Good luck to you if you have more tournaments to come What is your category? (Assuming you play in France based on your profile)
